Sam Eder: 0:00

For for better or for worse, in the entrepreneurial world, we ride waves. And the point that you can't catch a wave is when you don't have the strength to paddle. It's a different challenge in different places, right? Solve this problem in Europe. Solve this problem in Africa and Asia. But I always tell people that it's going to take three times as much money, and it will always say twice as long. So keep that in mind before you get...

Emilia Navarrete: 0:26

Three times more money and twice as long.

Sam Eder: 0:27

You got that set. You're good.

Emilia Navarrete: 0:30

Where does our food come from? What steps and workflows go into the process of getting our food? Do you choose carefully where you buy from and what you choose to buy? What is the farm to table revolution, and how does it affect our day to day food eating habits? Today in the studio, we have Sam, the co founder and CEO of Austin, Texas, company Big Wheelbarrow. For 16 years, Sam has worked with some of the world's most visible brands, including Apple, Bose and Wells Fargo, to craft an execute digital strategy around demand generation, customer experience and online communities. Today, I want to expand my knowledge on supply chain, farming, sales and buying decisions in this unique space where food meets technology from one foodie to another. Hi, Sam, and welcome to Planet Odoo. I hope the commute wasn't too bad.

Sam Eder: 1:20

Maybe I should pick you up just fine.

Emilia Navarrete: 1:23

So again, thank you so much for coming in and joining us and kind of talking to us about a little bit about what you do. Would you mind telling us what big wheelbarrow is, please?

Sam Eder: 1:32

Sure. So Big Wheelbarrow is a supply chain software company that helps grocery stores get more local food on their shelves. We started almost five years ago in Austin, Texas, and the idea was just really connecting small local farms in and around the city to restaurants that were trying to source kind of farm to table food. And what we discovered kind of doing it was that there was just this inefficiency in that kind of interaction between these businesses that are buying and all the small producers that they had to work with. And so we initially developed software to help me get off the phone because I was on the phone from essentially all day, every 24 hours. Chefs and farmers have very different hours. And so they were just trying to figure out how to get me off the phone. And we developed kind of the first version of Big Wheelbarrow software, just as an internal tool. And we kind of looked at each other like, wow, we put this in the hands of buyers. This will fundamentally change how we think about supplier pools. And that that was the genesis of the modern big wheelbarrow.

Emilia Navarrete: 2:37

Wow. So it started with restaurants and farmers, and now it is grocery stores. And on what other scale are you seeing it on?

Sam Eder: 2:45

Really, we're focusing on grocery stores right now, largely driven by COVID and the pandemic. So prior to that, we were really big into food service. So we work with big Broadline distributors, the big names that you see on the trucks rolling around everywhere, who were trying to create these relationships with restaurants in cities, even though their distribution centers were not in those cities. So how could you say like, yes, I can get you food from farms that your customers would recognize if they have to drive halfway across the state to drop it off at a warehouse to drive it back to that same city in one of our trucks? Yep. Didn't work out, so that we were that solution for them. And when the pandemic hit, obviously, that industry kind of blew apart. Right? Right. But we had one grocery store customer that knew what we were doing for the broad liners, and that was actually here in New York. They came to us and said, Hey, we have a problem. Our stores cannot react fast enough to what's happening in that store and our warehouse is just under water, and we can't move as fast as we need to move. So we were like, Oh, we could probably do what we did there for the grocery stores. And that was kind of our pivot point where we really focused on grocery. And, you know, it's been a really important decision. I think nationally, our supply chain is not going back to where it used to be. So we see, we're seeing more demand than ever for our software.

Emilia Navarrete: 4:14

First off, that's awesome. So what is your personal background? How did you come to co-found this type of company and and come to Big Wheelbarrow?

Sam Eder: 4:23

Yeah, I very let's say a very secure this route for sure. You know, ironically, I moved to Austin as part of the first wave of the dotcom boom. So I was there at the very end, like 99 and kind of got fell in love with that startup scene and watched it grow from its base. And see, I always came from the perspective of an anthropologist by background and training. And I, I always was in roles trying to help companies and brands reimagine what digital meant in how they interacted with their customers, with their. Employees with their internal stakeholders, with external stakeholders. That whole world of how we expect brands and companies to talk really was just nascent at that point. And so I my career, while I jumped around to lots of startups and big enterprises. The thread that tied it all together was thinking about what digital tools would mean for cultural change.

Emilia Navarrete: 5:26

Wow. Could you elaborate a little bit on that? On the the the digital landscape that you're kind of referring to?

Sam Eder: 5:33

Sure. I mean, you think about just how, at a very basic level, as consumers, right, how we used to interact with brands pre digital time. Right. It was you went to a physical location, you talk to a representative, or you picked up the phone.

Emilia Navarrete: 5:48

You saw an ad in a newspaper.

Sam Eder: 5:49

Yeah, exactly. You picked up it was it was all kind of 1 to 1 communications. Right? And then digital kind of turned that around. Then it was I could email, or I could be, I could tweet, I could talk on Facebook. You know, I could see what other users were talking about. And then, I was starting to talk with other users. And maybe we all banded together to ask for a feature. And then, I started influencing product development. And then, you know, my investors are watching what I'm doing on, you know, on all my social media and now I'm influencing how they see my company, you know, just for what's on Facebook and Twitter, right? All those little aspects of our interactions that we now just take for granted back then, we're all very kind of methodical, and we had to test things and make up the playbook. Literally, we were writing playbooks for corporations. On how do you handle this shift internally and externally.

Emilia Navarrete: 6:50

And so you've shifted in different many different industries with this kind of practice.

Sam Eder: 6:55

Yeah, I started at Apple. In Apple education. I've done consumer tech always on the tech side, software side. But kind of all that led to me really focusing in on digital transformation as on the management level. So I went to work for our management consultancy. I carried a bag for a week for a number of years, and that's actually where I met one of my co founders. He was my boss, and then he left to become a full time farmer. That shocked everybody. Yeah, that's not unusual career arc for a management consultant.

Emilia Navarrete: 7:32

Yeah, I mean, well, I guess that's the perfect partnership for what you guys are doing, then. Software meets farming. Wow. Exactly. So you mentioned Austin a little bit. And I want to I want to expand on that because we haven't spoken with anyone yet who knows about the startup environment and culture of Austin. And though we see things on LinkedIn and everywhere about it, we don't really have eyes on the inside. So what is that kind of like? And I guess as well, where does big did, before moving here, big wheelbarrow fall within that ecosystem?

Sam Eder: 8:04

Yeah, you know what's interesting about the Austin startup scene, having watched it kind of evolve from the first dotcom bust, right, Which happened right as I moved to Austin and then the second one that happened like four years later, and then the other one happened another four years after that, that the growth and the kind of weight of gravity that that scene had had evolved so quickly. Right. So in 2000, there were a handful of startups that had done well, and people working at a startup was a thing that you could do, and you could understand it. And we knew that world pretty intimately. We, you know, it was just kind of five or six major companies, and everybody else around you would switch around, and you knew everybody for years. Fast forward, right? And that number had tripled. Right? And we had more investors that were interested in what was going on in the ecosystem, more investors that were smart about early stage angel investing because they had made an exit to a tech company, and they kind of understood that ecosystem. So they were starting to feed. A lot of folks that I started with were starting their own companies, right? Wow. So that just became like this flywheel by which you started seeing then this pace of startups pick up the number of startups increasing and then big companies, you know, big startups from outside of Austin started coming to Austin to get the best workers.

Emilia Navarrete: 9:40

To grow their companies, right?

Sam Eder: 9:41

Just like starting, the center of gravity had grown to that critical mass that it was starting to pull people in. And I'm lucky because my one of my first bosses at a startup in Austin is was Josh Baer, and he became the literally the center of gravity for the Austin startup scene with Capital Factory, and they're incredibly involved in helping the ecosystem from just soup to nuts and to watch the transformation of that person I knew in like the early 2000s to this person who is the steward of this massive ecosystem was incredible to watch, but really in a lot of ways is the story of Austin.

Emilia Navarrete: 10:24

Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. I mean, you grow up knowing about California, knowing about Silicon Valley, knowing that Google is there and all these big names are there. And then to suddenly, for myself, at least join the tech community in the middle of my career, not at the very beginning, and then suddenly be hearing about Austin and coming into contact with more and more startups. It's definitely cool to see a lens on the inside and to better understand. How did that come about?

Sam Eder: 10:49

Oh yeah, yeah. I think I think that it's interesting. We're sitting here in Buffalo, and Buffalo is starting to follow that same template that Austin laid down. Austin was a quiet state capital college town, right? Most people when I moved there, most people didn't stay in Austin Aafter they graduated. They went elsewhere for work. And what we did to transition from being that kind of like plucky, home grown the outsiders in this quirky little town to like this big tech center, you know, hub. That is what a lot of towns and cities around the country and around the world are trying to figure out how to do. And I see a lot of that when I'm here. I see it when I go to different countries where they're trying to figure out how do we create a vibrant ecosystem. You know, it's kind of cool to see like I was there in Austin when they went to us, you see?

Emilia Navarrete: 11:45

Yeah, That's really cool that you say you see that here in Buffalo, because I know. So for those of you who don't know, Big Wheelbarrow is now in Buffalo, New York, in Seneca, one tower working after winning the competition that 43 North hosted, which is one of the biggest startup competitions in the US. Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Sam Eder: 12:07

Yeah, it was. I'll say that I was I really didn't consider Buffalo a location for us to potentially move. We were recruited by one of the 43 North portfolio managers to apply, and we had a customer that we were talking to here, and we were like, Well, why not? We're we're doing it. But then, as our relationship with the customer grew, we're like, "Well, actually, this is kind of an interesting thing that's going on. And the application process is kind of interesting because it's a two way street." You're not just saying, "Well, this is what I'm doing for my business, and I'm just judging a big wheelbarrow on our, you know, our pitch." But they're also thinking about how are we adding to the ecosystem? And we had to be proactive and think like, well, what is it about Buffalo that will help big wheelbarrow grow? And that that in that process, we started really seeing all this potential and really starting picking up those kind of parallels to what it was like in early Austin to kind of where we are here in Buffalo today. I'll say the number one thing that I take advantage of, and this is why I think 43 North has had a lot of successful companies, is that Buffalo is still a one degree of separation town. If I want an introduction, I can ask people, and chances are it's not just like, "Oh, I know someone who works there like, Oh yeah, I know that person. We played hockey together. Yeah, we went to high school together. Right?" Like that happens every day for me at some point. It's incredible, right? But I'll say Austin used to be like that, and it's grown. Right. And there's pluses and minuses to that, obviously. But it's great. It is an incredible advantage for a seed stage startup to have that kind of town behind them, because we are in the business of getting those critical proving points in our business and landing a key account, getting a key higher rate. All those little things that can happen in a in a smaller network faster is critical because we move at the speed of light.

Emilia Navarrete: 14:19

Yup. So you touched on your processes, and I really want to jump into that just because the premise of this podcast is to deep dive into businesses and to kind of understand these processes and workflows that you guys use. So I want to talk about just kind of from the beginning to the end, what kind of farms do you work with? How do you reach out to customers? What is your kind of, I guess, the key factors of your workflow?

Sam Eder: 14:43

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the one important thing to think about in our framework is that big wheelbarrow essentially has two halves to it. We have this half, which is our software which we developed to automate a lot of the kind of transactional friction points that happened along the supply chain. And I know Odoo knows better than most about the complexities of supply chain, but for those of you guys who don't know, you know, to for food to show up on a grocery shelf, there are at least five parallel tracks and all of them have individual steps that can, in effect, affect each other in different ways across the board. It's not just as easy as calling up a farmer, having them show up with food, and it shows up on the shelf, right? There's tracking, right? There's demand planning, there is food safety audits, there are merchandising points, there's pricing, There's, I mean, everything that goes into that are all different groups within a grocery chain and really trying to think about like where we fit in was just really like, can we automate a lot of that work? Because when you deal with a big farm, it's easy. Like if you're talking about people who ship out truckloads and truckloads of food every day, right? Thousand acre farms, plus they have people that have 1 to 1 relationships with everybody else. And so they can have that kind of power. But a small farm that may have product three or four months a year for this grocery chain, it's just not the same. So that's that was our purpose for that. And so, really, we focus a lot on business process automation. So any place where we can have a machine or intelligent agent go forward and smooth out those paths, we we do that. And then the other side, the other half, a big wheelbarrow, is that producer side, the network that's created. It's either is our customers proprietary network. Like these are our vendors, and we don't want them to be shared, or it's our public network that we've created working with different organizations all around the country to be able to say,"Here, here are small producers that are ready to go to your stores."

Emilia Navarrete: 17:03

Wow. And is this over finding long term producers all the time, or is it short term last minute? How quickly can you kind of use it to.

Sam Eder: 17:14

They're all across the board. And I'd say what what we've always struggled with is that the squeaky wheel is immediate, and that is always fill a gap. Fill a gap. You know, the the grocery store has a slot. It's empty right now. It needs to get filled. Right? That's the squeaky wheel. We solve that pretty quickly, but it's always the number one issue. What we want to evolve to is this kind of layer of intelligence that looks across the entire network and solves for short term, medium and long term needs for the organization so they can be less dependent on trucking in food from thousands of miles away. But address the fact that there are short term issues that arise that need you to create a fill when there's a there's an out of stock or what you have to do if a region's in a bad drought and we're not going to get the kind of food that we need from them, right?

Emilia Navarrete: 18:09

We can't have a stock out. We can't have loss there for the supermarket or for the restaurant, Right. So, yeah. So supply chain, like you said, is something that we work heavily with within Odoo and something that we kind of work with. Companies depending on what their workflows is, is also the automation process when being able to kind of compare vendor costs all in one place, blanket ordering requests for purchasing on a larger scale. And it is something that you always kind of think. I think regular people think that their softwares are already doing that or that company softwares are already doing that and don't realize until they're behind the curtain that that's not actually an automated process. It is someone possibly picking up the phone and calling five different farms or five different vendors and trying to figure it out. And it's crazy how much you can automate. And a lot of the times when I'm working with students in supply chain courses, they're like, I'll run a case study with them where I'm like, You know, the chicken comes from here to here. What do you have to do? And they're like, Well, my software is going to do this. And I'm like, Well, that's an automation. Who says your software is going to do that? You know, that has to be built in. You have to tell it to do that. You know what I mean? They just kind of assume that when Costco orders their chickens, it must automatically do all these things.

Sam Eder: 19:22

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They don't know that. Behind the curtain, there's somebody with a fax machine out there, Post-it notes. I mean, it's not it's actually one of the most interesting phenomenons. And I think I'm going to go back outside of food and tie it back to something that just kind of grabbed the news lately, which is Southwest Airlines when they had that big meltdown. Yes, right. What really came to light was that they had not invested in back end systems in a long time, and they had been warned like, hey, you know, these things could happen, but they chose to invest in front end stuff. And I think grocery the food industry suffered from the same problem, which was that for ages, while while everybody was kind of digitizing, they were digitizing on the consumer side.

Emilia Navarrete: 20:12

That looks good, Right?

Sam Eder: 20:14

And then, when COVID hit, everything blew up, and the entire industry had its Southwest Airlines meltdown. And it's continually having meltdowns more frequently than people realize. But what's kind of at the background is now people are realizing, like, supply chain resiliency isn't in. Sustainability isn't just a marketing term. It actually is affecting our bottom line. So we can't sell products because we don't have it on the shelf. We're going to take a loss, right? So how do we change that? Investing in technology on the on the ugly, unsexy back end. Right. Actually is going to have payoffs on the front end. And that that mind shift has really happened in the last two years.

Emilia Navarrete: 21:03

Yeah. I mean, you can't have some of the things we're seeing. I mean, during the pandemic, it was toilet paper, but now it's sometimes baby food, you know, and things. And it's like you can't not have it, you know what I mean? And so having a short term solution and then hopefully investing in the long term solution is wonderful. And it's something that we obviously push here to do quite a bit when speaking to customers about what's your next ERP going to be? How are you going to manage these things so that you're not left in the cold when it comes around? Yeah, So we get that here. Yeah.

Sam Eder: 21:33

No, I figure everybody understands this, you guys.

Emilia Navarrete: 21:35

Yeah. So some things that I kind of pulled from your bio that I wanted to touch on for those that may not know what they kind of mean, were terms that you used. We touched on digital strategies. I wanted to touch on demand generation locally and seasonal driven diets and the farm to table revolution, which, yes, I did those. Yup.

Sam Eder: 21:58

Make me go cross my brain.

Emilia Navarrete: 22:01

So we can we can pull them apart separately because I know those are coming from a couple of different places. But and the reason I honestly, it's a little selfish, the reason I kind of pulled some of these so farm to table. Obviously, like a lot of people who live in cities, I've gone to like chef prepared meals at a restaurant where they've done a farm to table dinner maybe once, or I've gone to a farm locally where they've brought in a chef to do a farm to table meal. And I actually was at Bonnaroo Music Festival last year in Nashville, or, I'm sorry, Little South of Nashville. And Oxfam did a farm to table dinner like right at the festival. So I do know a little bit about that. I think it's really cool. And I guess what I'm asking you is more so for everyone. What is it, and how are we seeing it?

Sam Eder: 22:44

Yeah, let's say Farm Table really made its first kind of reemergence onto the scene because this has been happening cyclically for eons Right now. People get away from the farm, and then they get reminded like, Oh wait, we've swung too far, right? We need to remember where our food came from. The late nineties was really kind of the first time that chefs kind of said, Hey, look, we need to bring back the core of food. It really filtered to the rest of us kind of in the mid, mid to late 2000s, right where you start to see a lot of like, you know, farm to table cuisine, and you know that that idea of really just not only celebrating the skill of a chef but celebrating where the food came from. And that's that, to me is, is just it's pretty intrinsic to humankind, right? We want to feel a connection with things, tastes better, feel more comforting when we know a story behind it. The same reason why we go to a winery, and you have someone who's like explaining the terroir and all the flavors. When you have the wine there, the best it's ever going to taste, right? You take that bottle home, it's not going to taste the same, you know that story. But it's not the same as having kind of surrounded by it. And that's, I think that's kind of what that moment was. And then for our side, right. What I was watching happened in Austin at the same time was all these small urban farms were popping up, and they were trying to figure out how to be more involved besides just selling to their neighbors or selling to people at Farmer's Market, it was, How do we get our food in a grocery store? How do we get our food in that restaurant? And that was kind of one of the first points where we were like, Why is it that it's so hard? Why is it that a local farm that has incredible food cannot survive without having weddings and events on their site. Right. And so that that was the first kind of when we evolved. You know, farm to table to be more than just a nice thing. But how do we create the policies, right, to affect that? We had to change rules in Austin to make urban farms legal because they were technically illegal. Right. And, you know, all these little things. And I think we're seeing that still to this day filtering out across the country. People are changing policies, thinking about how we can use the power of the collective city municipalities to solve for things like food deserts and the like. So I love the evolution of farm to table because it started as kind of a a marketing thing, and now it's really become like a just this thing.

Emilia Navarrete: 25:41

Yeah. So I'm curious. I know that something, and this is going to be maybe a convoluted way to get there, but something that we talk about a lot here at Odoo is like the accessibility of our product. And so when you take that over to food software for, you know, things like farm to table and such may not always seem very accessible, just about who gets to enjoy them and how they are accessed. And then and then, but then that's kind of a large part of your business and your software. So how do you allow for your software to be as accessible as possible within an industry that is sometimes inaccessible?

Sam Eder: 26:20

Yeah, that's actually a really great correlation. And I will say. Just to tie it back to us. But for me, when we talk about food deserts. Inaccessibility is actually not a lack of accessibility to food. It's a lack of accessibility to unprocessed whole foods or fresh foods. It's very specific, right, with that category is, and I think the same way when we think about farms and farmers, grocery stores, how they access technology, considering they have been historically laggards in certain ways, it was thinking about things like, well, you know, a farmer who could maybe get a cell signal in the field might not actually be able to transmit data, right? So we had to figure out ways to do text input because you can send text via the normal cell data. But until you get to like five G or any of the G's at that point, you couldn't send like a picture, right? It would just stall out. Understanding that and then incorporating that into our product development was pretty core, right? So we we had to understand that like, yes, in our in the field there's a reality in the back office of a grocery store is another reality. And we had to think about really what our users day to day looks like, and if we're going to be the software that they use daily, it had to live up to that reality.

Emilia Navarrete: 27:56

Right? Right. Yeah. I think a lot of what we talk about here is ease of use, making sure that our software looks good and that it's easy to use and how sometimes, you know, our dashboard or our home page matches an iPhone or an android for ease of use and scalability. Is it scalable since we're marketing to small companies and then larger ones now? So what do you think are kind of those main tenets for Big Wheelbarrow that you guys kind of always come back to for for customers?

Sam Eder: 28:23

Yeah, I mean, you guys kind of nailed it, right? Like it's got to match the reality of what it's like to be in the field, right? So we know that smaller farmers are not sitting in a house somewhere working on their computer all day. They're in the field for a good part of their day, and they make it back into the office. And when they do make it back in the office, they're probably harangued by a million people. And it's a crazy world for them. Right. And our buyers, you know, grocery store are trying to be in front of their customers as much as humanly possible. They don't want to be back in their desk or on the phone all day. Like that's not their job either. So really, just understanding that and saying like, okay, where can we limit or automate those interactions so they feel like, Great, I'm free to do this, and where can we understand that our software needs to meet them where they are? So when they are in the field, when they are on the floor, can they access our phone, our product scaled down to what they need at that moment? There. And that's really been it's hard for me. I'm a bad editor, right? I have great great team that helps like edit that away because on on the floor in the field, you really only need to do like two or three things. But you know me, I'm always like, What do you do this? What if you could see that.

Emilia Navarrete: 29:42

The idea guy.

Sam Eder: 29:43

It's great. It's great to have people like, okay, no, you got to do three things and if you need to do a fourth, you can do that back at your desk. Yep. Oh, fine, fine.

Emilia Navarrete: 29:56

That's so funny. So what do you see growth wise? What are your hopes for the growth of big wheelbarrow? How does it you know that growth impact locally? Nationally? I know that's a very heavy question.

Sam Eder: 30:12

Yeah. I mean, so I mean, for us. Right. We measure growth in a bunch of different ways, but I think the most holistic way is that we think about our gross transaction value volume. So how much transactions are flowing through big wheelbarrow at any given point. So last year, just in this region, we did a little over three and one half million dollars in local transactions through Big Wheelbarrow. We did a little bit over 4 million total across our other regions and we just want to blow that up, right? We we are just at the tip of the iceberg for just this region and we're expanding nationally and we're right. We have our vision. And as I think about it, in the future rate beyond just this region, beyond just the country, I see big wheelbarrow having a role in kind of creating these localized supply chains all over the world. And we see it's a different challenge in different places. Right. And so understanding what parts of our toolset will translate and what won't is really interesting. And we're starting now to plan out what are the foundational points that will help us solve this problem in Europe, solve this problem in Africa and Asia. Right. All these points are coming down to like, what are the foundational points that all food economies need to solve for, even if the problem is stacked up in a different way? If we can have solutions across the way, we can at least start to create that vision for how it works.

Emilia Navarrete: 31:48

Well, so then I guess my last question would be from a startup perspective, because that's something that we can't always talk about here. And with your expertise and knowledge, what would be some words of wisdom advice for those thinking about startup life, starting one, participating, being a member of And it can be not with necessarily within your industry or in your industry.

Sam Eder: 32:19

Oh wow, that's okay. So I guess I mean, it sounds a little bit glib, but I always tell people that it's going to take three times as much money as you thought it was going to do to get this thing started. And it will always take twice as long. So keep that in mind before.

Emilia Navarrete: 32:36

You get started and twice as long you heard it here. That's how you start to start.

Sam Eder: 32:41

You got that set, You're good.

Emilia Navarrete: 32:43

But maybe you should probably do it in a warmer climate. Yeah. Around Buffalo.

Sam Eder: 32:46

Yeah. No, but I think the other day, if you are an entrepreneur. You. You are already in it to suffer the emotional roller coaster that is startup life. And I always tell people that like the difference between a successful startup and most startups that fail isn't the idea, right? It's just someone burns out, right? Like you get burnt out and you're like, I just can't handle another pivot. I can't handle another. No, right. Like, those are the things that like, you have to be cognizant of. So you either have the wherewithal to like power through or you have tools that you've put in your in place to help you get over it. Like, you know, some people are way into like executive coaching or yoga or whatever the case may be. Hopefully not just alcohol, you know, something, right, that helps you get to that point. That is really the critical point because, you know, we are all surfers, right? For for better or for worse in the entrepreneurial world, we ride waves. Right. And the point that you can't catch a wave is when you don't have the strength to paddle. Right. And that's that's really it. So I tell people when they're thinking about this, like, what are you doing to make sure that you have the power to get you through the thing that's going to be three times as expensive and twice as long, then you expect it, right? When you're training for a marathon and someone comes back at the end like, guess what? You're actually going to run 56 miles, right? Like, that's a different story than when your 26, Right?

Emilia Navarrete: 34:19

Wow. Well, thank you so much. This is definitely been the conversation that I've been looking forward to the most, just because I am a foodie, but also just really love talking about this stuff. Is there anything else you want to share about Big Wheelbarrow before we kind of close out?

Sam Eder: 34:37

I think maybe that's big wheelbarrow, but I would like to encourage everybody when you're out there, like try to buy one local thing a week if you can. It's it's great for your local economy, it's great for the producer. And it's telling the retailer that you're buying it from that local matters.

Emilia Navarrete: 34:55

Great. Thank you so much, Sam. Well, that's my cue. Thank you for joining us today. And if you liked it, take a look at some of the other episodes above. We have tons of other stuff. Talk to any expert from the Belgian team or join me and talk to more people from North AM. Go check out all of our episodes on your favorite streaming platform and come back. Bye, guys.