Deep Dive: Odoo Buffalo Director Nick Kosinski

Nick: 0:00

Product and culture without a question. So I say product because what we do is fascinating. There's never a dull moment. And then I say culture, because the culture of the company is it's incredibly unique and forward thinking. You know, the more time I invest in or do, the more that I am enriching my intellectual life. I mean, it's like a game. I honestly used to explain that, you know, people like, what do you do exactly? When I was selling Odoo, and I would say it's like I sell software. But in my mind it was almost like playing a video game.

Emilia: 0:30

Welcome back to Planet Odoo. If you're just joining us for the first time, we are happy to have you. If you are tuning in after last week's episode, then thanks for coming back. Whether you're a business owner, entrepreneur, customer, partner or someone interested in Odoo, I'm here to deep dive with you and explore topics in business. I'm your host, Amelia, and we are in Buffalo, New York today with the director of the Buffalo office, Nick. We're going to hear about how he staked his claim in this growing tech city and made an office of 20 into an office of 161. On advice, on how to get into tech or insider knowledge on how an office is run. Let's jump in. Nick, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I know you're very busy and welcome to the studio.

Nick: 1:14

Thank you for having me. Awesome. Yeah. Like I said, super happy to be here and looking forward to taking a dive into whatever questions you guys might have today.

Emilia: 1:22

Yeah. So I want to start out with a little bit of background. I know a lot of people are probably going to be listening because you're somebody that they want to hear from and you can share a lot of information with us. But I want to jump into the back here. How did you come to Odoo?

Nick: 1:35

Sure. So the long and short of it is pretty simple. I applied, so I was in health care. That's where I started my career. I was an analyst at a health insurance company, and I essentially became fascinated with the various pieces of technology that these companies were relying on in order to collect data and report on it, etc. And that kind of generated some intellectual curiosity and interest in enterprise software. And I actually applied to a company in order to effectively transition out of health care into tech. And I got denied and I'll never forget it. I was like 23 or 24, you know, I wasn't particularly good at interviewing at this stage of my life. But anyway, I gave it a shot and I was super bummed out. I'll never forget it. I was standing on the roof of my apartment in Brooklyn and I was talking to my mom and and she had texted me, you know, a link to this company called Odoo, and she's like : 'Oh, I read something that this company is hiring in New York'. And I was like, so aggravated that I had previously gotten denied, you know, I was like "Oh, whatever, mom, you know?". And I clicked the link and I applied. And lo and behold, I ended up taking the interview and then taking the job. And, you know, eight years, seven years later here I sit chatting with, you.

Emilia: 2:57

Know, So you you know, we've mentioned this New York City office a couple of times. You were living in Brooklyn, but I don't think it exists anymore. It was kind of like a satellite office. Can you get more into that? Because I think that's a fun part of Odoo history for us.

Nick: 3:09

And it definitely feeds into, again, the reason why we're sitting here today. So there was obviously the first office in the US was in San Francisco, established around 2010, and then in 2014 Odoo wanted to have an East Coast presence. So they kicked around the idea and actually put into action a plan to to create an East Coast office in New York City. And what they realized at this time was, you know, growing a software company in a tier one city like New York, where, you know, it's super expensive, the landscape in terms of, you know, competition in the market for employees is super competitive, etc. I think in over the course of a few years, they realized, okay, maybe maybe New York isn't the place to to grow a company. And maybe there's better alternatives, which I'm sure we'll talk about on this podcast in a little while. But yeah, that was the situation for the New York office. So it got to about ten or 11 people. It stagnated there for six or seven months and then I think they put a stop to hiring or growing that office and they more or less let it fizzle out. And I was one of the last three survivors on the New York boat. And I transitioned out in in May of 2020 to come here. Wow. And then there were two other employees. One left shortly after I and the other actually moved to Buffalo as well and still works for the company in the Buffalo office. So I wouldn't say the office died. I think the office evolved and got absorbed by other offices.

Emilia: 4:58

Wow. Yeah, that's cool. That's definitely something that we talk about in the Buffalo office quite a bit is how you kind of started in New York and this infamous office that was there. And so it's very cool to hear from you, you know, how it transitioned to becoming what is now in Buffalo. So what you know, what are your favorite things about the company? So just talking about Odoo, obviously you've transitioned quite a bit within the company. What are some things that stick out to you? Is your as your favorite things.

Nick: 5:21

Product and culture without a question. So I say product because what we do is fascinating. There's never a dull moment. I mean, right? It's like a puzzle. I mean, it's like a game. I honestly used to explain that people like "what do you do exactly?" when I was selling Odoo and I would say it's like I sell software. But in my mind it was almost like playing a video game, right? The level was the customer's requirements. My job was to configure workflows in such a way as to impress them and solve their problems. And that was like the challenge. And I loved that. And, you know, I'm working on different challenges now, still very much gamified in my own mind, but you at least get the idea. So I say product. I mean, like I said, it never a dull moment. You're constantly learning. You're constantly being exposed to different businesses who have different problems. And right, these these are not you're developing skills that are highly transferable, right? Every minute that you spend and investing time into learning Odoo or listening to your customers requirements anywhere else you go in your career across the planet, you know, this is knowledge that will serve you for for many years to come. So, you know, I like the fact that there's that dichotomy of play where, you know, the more time I invest in Odoo, the more that I am enriching my intellectual life. You don't get a lot of that at other companies. And then I say culture, because the culture of the company it's incredibly unique and forward thinking. You know, a lot of companies say "Oh, we trust our employees and we give them autonomy and and we, we let them make their own decisions". And at Odoo, they actually... It's real. I mean, so often I'll never forget it. When I was buying furniture for the New York office a few years back. And you know, when asking know what's my budget? Odoo would say "spend the money like it's your own" and there would be no follow up no nothing. And there you have it. And that's just one insight into the culture. You know there are many other factors.

Emilia: 7:24

I mean, culture is something that keeps coming up quite a bit. And I saw something interesting on LinkedIn that said, you know, culture is how you feel on a Sunday about having to come to work on Monday, you know, instead of having like the Sunday Scaries you're actually excited because you're excited to see people or work with other people or it just it brings happiness right about Monday morning. And so that is something that obviously you've been able to cultivate in this office and well, because that is something that people touch on quite a bit and it's something that when our recruiters go out into the world and talk about Odoo, it comes up quite a bit. So how do you cultivate that culture in the office?

Nick: 8:03

It's a good question. I think it all boils down to just being human, you know, being open and honest about what's happening in any given situation, being having humility, realizing that, everyone is going to make mistakes. It's about what we learn from our mistakes. It's not about avoiding mistakes, you know, talking to people, listening to people. If people, have a concern or they want to see something fixed, I mean, bringing that person in, investigating the situation. So I think that's the most important thing, you're not going to do everything that everyone wants. But what you can do is do what makes sense. And if we don't do something, explain and educate an employee or a group of people as to why we didn't go in that direction. So I think it's communication. That's ultimately what it boils down to. I mean, I could go on and on about that question. But that should give you an idea, is just treating people as humans and realizing that we're all in this boat together and that we're all building together. If one of us is failing, we're all failing and vice versa. So that's that's my mentality.

Emilia: 9:14

Right. And I think that's something that we see a lot here where everyone kind of gets a microphone, everyone gets your ear or their manager's ear in some capacity. And instead of having the company's bottom line thrown in your face, instead someone sits down with you and explains, as you said, why the decision was made that way. And I think that just really levels the playing field for people and is a wonderful way to kind of perpetuate the culture of the company where everybody is treated in the same way.

Nick: 9:45

Like I so often when confronted with like, why didn't you make this decision? And I say: "here's my analysis, rip it apart if you think it's incorrect, break it and I'll be happy to fix it. And I'll be happy to adjust my thinking." And you know, at the moment that I am confronted with new information. However, this is the I've done the best that I can do with this analysis. And like I said, so that's my that's my style for for decision making. You know, I think it's being open and transparent and allowing others to see where you come from. And only when they see where you come from will they get behind you.

Emilia: 10:21

I think another thing you just made me think of, it was something that is big with our culture, is the roll with its mentality, right? When we say to people like, here's my idea, and then, you know, the answer might be "Roll with it, show me. Let's see." You know what I mean? And I think that that's something that's very specific, maybe not very specific to Odoo, but not something that people see all the time where they can come to their managing director and say "I have an idea and this is what it is. What do you think?" And you might say, you know "Roll with it, show me. Let's see how it looks." Where does that kind of come from?

Nick: 10:54

Yeah, I mean, I think. People have many ideas every day. And the ideas that they choose to pursue are usually ideas that they can make sense of and ideas that they don't pursue. It's because they quickly realize, okay, that idea actually doesn't add up when I when I peel back one more layer. So by telling people "hey, if you really if you're passionate about making this change to the way you work because you think you're going to achieve these results", start to peel back the layers, right? Bring new data to the team, show that there's a better way to do this job or show that, you know, investing time and energy into this is going to have a positive ROI for the company. And I put the work on them, peel back the layers, right? And when they start to peel back the layers, either they quickly realize actually this doesn't make a lot of sense and they abandon it and we never hear about it again. Or in a few months they come to me or weeks 'Hey, here's what I've been working on. Here are the results.' And boom. Now the team's evolving, assuming the results are positive. And I see a team as an organism, and there are many different components that are constantly evolving and changing in order to adapt to whatever environment that it's in and right life is changing. The ecosystem that we do business in is changing, and we need to be evolving and adapting constantly. And the only way we're going to do that is by leveraging every resource that we have in order to get as clear of a picture of the environment that we operate in as possible, to evolve as effectively as we can. That's my thinking behind that. Well.

Emilia: 12:32

You heard it here first, everyone. Yeah, I think obviously we could get as granular as we wanted on this and talk for ages about it. But I want to kind of come out to a more macro level now and touch on what you said. So the tech community in Buffalo, right? So this this ecosystem that we've now introduced ourselves to, what what was the thought process behind Buffalo and how did this kind of come about?

Nick: 12:59

So the thought process behind why we came to Buffalo is that?.

Emilia: 13:01

Yeah yeah.

Nick: 13:03

Really there are a few different prongs that go into this. I think first and most important is the university ecosystem. And I think people can appreciate that now more than ever, especially when looking at the labor market over the last three years and how intense the competition has been for good employees. But right, Buffalo has a rich university ecosystem. It's got around 75,000 students in about a 50 mile radius. If you think about right, you be buff State, Canisius High, Geneseo, Fredonia, Brockport, etc. And then around 200,000 if you go out a couple of hundred miles. That is super important because you need to have a pipeline of talent if you're going to build a large company. And if you don't have that or if you're if there's immense competition and you're finding yourself having to invest tons of money into recruiting or competing for talent with other employers, that's a major focus. And that could be time, energy and focus that you instead put into building a more competitive product. So that's one is university ecosystem. I mean, then you have the community, right? It's a how they say 'buy low, sell high'. I mean, buffalo was is sort of still, in my opinion, at a low point compared to what it could be long term. It's an inexpensive city. The the hierarchy in our city in terms of who to know in order to get things done is still relatively very small compared to a lot of other cities. There's an immense need for a compelling company to come in and help educate and employ people to prepare them for the economy of tomorrow. And having that edge gives you incredible leverage when it comes to navigating the politics and the bureaucracy of the city in order to get things done. Going to, for example, partnering with universities. Like UB right, they're willing to listen to us because there aren't 5000 other software companies banging on the door. There's a couple, and that's a totally different position to be in compared to somewhere like, you know, Austin, Texas, or, you know, or one of these other up and coming or established, you know tech cities. So I mean, again, that's I don't want to keep rambling, but at least you get the idea I mean, culture, community, universities, etc.. And also I'm from here so I kind.

Emilia: 15:51

Of hometown here.

Nick: 15:52

I know the landscape.

Emilia: 15:54

And how has Buffalo changed over the last few years since Odoo has, you know, joined its ranks, in your opinion?

Nick: 16:01

Sure. I don't think it's so much a consequence of Odoo joining the ranks. I think that we're, you know, a contributing factor as much as any of the other technology companies that have either moved to or have been have been born in Buffalo over the last few years. Because it's really it's a sentiment, it's a movement, it's a culture. It's not so much you know, it's not you know, it's it's not a it's not a mathematical equation, you know. So but in terms of how it's changed, there's progress. You have developers who are starting to invest here. You have companies that are starting to prove their business models and hire here. You have some good examples of private/public collaboration happening here. And all of those things coming together. Show people in this community who, in my opinion, have been sort of marginalized over the last 20 to 30 years. You know, it shows them that, hey, there is actually something that we can do to be better, to be more relevant and to and to have a booming economy, even if we're not necessarily by any means there yet, but we're making some progress and showing that traction is possible. And it's that hope that we're seeing. That's what I've noticed as far as there being change over the last few years.

Emilia: 17:17

And then obviously, you know, we're we're hopefully out of the pandemic. But I know COVID was a huge thing for tech. It had to a lot of companies had to adapt after the pandemic, you know, between working from home and coming back into the office. And, you know, things slowed down in cities. Is this something that you saw in Buffalo? Did COVID have a huge impact on Odoo in Buffalo and things like that?

Nick: 17:44

I mean, of course, COVID was was a horrible thing for all of us to endure, both on a personal as well as on a professional level. But as far as the impact that COVID had on Odoo, I wouldn't say that it was all that bad. Obviously, right. We were confronted with some constraints like work from home and, you know, we had an economy that was sort of up in the air for the last few years and no one really knew where things were going to fall. So you had you know, people had tightened their wallets to some extent, which I wouldn't say hurt business because it didn't. But, you know, it made some things more complicated for us. But yeah,I do like to think that it is behind us. Of course, You know, the question is more what are we doing going forward to in terms of preventative measures to make sure something like this doesn't happen again, which I haven't seen or heard a lot about. But as far as COVID 19 goes, yeah, I think I think that we're through the thick of it and that. Yeah. I think we'll see where we go from here.

Emilia: 18:55

Yeah, hopefully. And a remnant of that would definitely be like you touched on work from home. So here at our office, we do have a hybrid environment with two days at home and three days in the office. Is this something that you see being long term for Buffalo? Is this something that you encourage, see as a good thing, a bad thing?

Nick: 19:24

So how I think about it isn't necessarily a direct reflection of what I plan to do. So I want to make sure that we distinguish between those two things. But here's how I see it, and maybe it's a little extreme, but I'll share it with you anyway. A company's primary duty is to achieve productivity to be the best version of themselves that they can be. If you're making $1 today and there's an opportunity that you can invest another $0.02 and make a dollar ten, you should probably do it right. So a company needs to be doing everything that it can at all times in order to optimize productivity. And it's very simple. The reason if they don't do that, the competition will and that company will die over time. Now that we understand that basic equation. I think it's important that you have an appreciation for the fact that companies have to do everything that they can to optimize productivity. It's it's how they survive. To say otherwise is to agree that a company should should die. And we, of course, don't want that because we're all in trouble. So knowing this, I do think that being in office and being in person, it does optimize productivity versus compared to being remote. And I don't want to say that as a blanket statement for all roles because I'm still unsure, but I think for most roles. Being in person optimizes productivity, and it's therefore in the best interest of the company to do that. And yeah, I think remote work is still lingering as a consequence of people leveraging it as a as a differentiator when trying to recruit employees. And not so much as a you know, is a long it's not I don't think it will be a long term strategy that company is employ in order to to optimize to sustain their business.

Emilia: 21:36

Right. No, I mean, we're seeing it at least on social media and in other places that you're not alone in your thinking. A lot of directors, executives for other tech companies are kind of shifting if as much back to in office as they can for the same reasons.

Nick: 21:52

I mean, look at the layoffs that are happening now with Amazon and 10,000 plus Facebook, 11, you know, Twitter, ET cetera. It's all of this hiring. I'd be curious to know how many of the employees that were laid off were working remote. You know, it's easy for things to get out of control. And I'm sure there was a lot of excess that got created over the last. Over the last few years. And of course, what goes up must come down and the market will in time correct itself, as we're seeing now.

Emilia: 22:24

And it's part of the culture, right? If you're seeing people every day, if the people who are managing you are in front of you and being managed or in front of you, etc., it helps with the culture for the company for sure. Right. If you if you're managing a team of ten that you've maybe never seen, you know, at a larger company and work from home environment, it can directly impact how people feel about the company and things like that.

Nick: 22:45

Yeah, I think it would be, you know, looking at I'd love to see data around like promotions and how people have evolved their careers and their place in the hierarchy in the context of remote work. I just feel like from a company perspective, it's so much more difficult to evaluate people when you're not around them and speaking with them and checking in with them, right? But instead forced to have a relationship that is exclusively remote.

Emilia: 23:16

And then as an office, obviously you're leaning towards.

Nick: 23:20

For now it's hybrid and it's as of now, it's working and it continues to work. But again, like all things, if I get confronted with data that says otherwise in the future, then you know, I will adapt. Changing one's mind is healthy as long as it's grounded in the right reason and logic and information.

Emilia: 23:44

Yeah, for sure. So as far as the Buffalo office and future plans, you know, stay tuned on whether the hybrid will continue. But anything else interesting you can share with us about the Buffalo office and where we're headed?

Nick: 23:59

I guess a few things worth chatting about would be. One. I mean, the office as a whole is doing super well. People are very happy with the KPIs that are being achieved across all teams, which makes me very happy. And yeah, we've worked hard as a group for the last few years to get to a point where we're meaningfully contributing to the ecosystem on a global scale. And we're just starting to get into that position and it's just the beginning. As far as future plans go. The big item right now on my list is trying to figure out the future of our real estate footprint, whether we buy something or lease something. It remains up in the air. But one thing is for certain, and that's making sure that we have a good environment that satisfies all of our needs, that gives people a place to come and work and collaborate and collide with one another. And that creates and facilitates synergy is very important. And whatever we decide to do next, that's what we're going to be looking to optimize.

Emilia: 25:13

So I want to move over here a little bit. Again, we're moving macro again outside of the Buffalo office to more globally. You just recently went to do experience. And we haven't spoken on this show yet with anyone who has. So I want to jump into Odoo experience. What was it like? Just overarching thoughts.

Nick: 25:33

I mean, the first thing that I noticed when I was there was the size of the community. It tripled since the last Odoo Experience that I was at in 2019. And I mean, that's just a testament to the fact that we are continuing to build tremendous momentum on a global scale. And that's that reinforces, you know, the reason why I continue to work here and and be a part of this. It's because, you know, the leadership that we have, the C-suite all the way down, is right there making the right decisions. And that's translating to continued success. So and it's great to actually see it in physical form, which at OXP you can feel the energy and the hype. And obviously that's exciting.

Emilia: 26:22

And you went with a team of people from our office too. So, you know, that must have been amazing to show other people what you know so well and get them involved and meeting other people. Can you talk on that?

Nick: 26:38

Yeah. I mean, so as you know, there are ten plus offices around the globe. Most of those offices had people attend. And you're meeting colleagues from all over the planet, right, from Kenya. You're meeting people from Spain, from Hong Kong, from India, from Dubai, from Mexico. Despite the fact that we're global and distributed across the planet, our operational processes, what we sell, the market that we have to learn, it's all extremely similar. So, you know, despite being from vastly different places, our intellectual curiosity and interests are incredibly aligned. So it's easy to grab dinner with people, right? Go out and have a drink and just jump into a conversation. So it's almost like a big club in a way. But yeah, I mean, that's that's the beauty of it. And it's good to get to expose yourself and all of the people you work with to one another. It's again, more it's more variables that you learn about, more data you collect and just it enables you to make better decisions long term, right?

Emilia: 27:54

And it makes everything feel a lot smaller, I should say, right? I mean, in my day to day, I get to work with a lot of people in Hong Kong or in Belgium, but not every team gets that experience, so it makes the company feel a lot smaller when you're actually able to see people in real life and know what they're working on, even if it's across the world. So how was it seeing FP? Fp being Fabian Pinckaer's our CEO of Odoo? I'm sure a lot of you at home already know that, but you've obviously known FP for a few years now. How was it kind of collaborating and meeting up with him?

Nick: 28:27

I mean, it's always great. You know, there are no words to encapsulate what he has done as far as the product that he has built, his vision in how far out he thinks. You know, that's always amazed me. And it continued to amaze me even at OXP. You know, I that's inspiring. And I aspire to to have that sort of framework for thinking about business. And of course, right at heart, he's also a great salesperson. He's very good at motivating and inspiring. And I mean, in all of the things that he does in his life and and the philosophies that he adheres to, you know, they reinforce exactly that which he preaches, which is super compelling. And one of the one of the primary reasons why I am in this company and so wholeheartedly is because the opportunity to work with and learn from people like him amongst the other sea levels as well. And other managing directors. It's just a great leadership team around across the.

Emilia: 29:40

Globe, right? Yeah. No, it's always very cool to be able to see F.p. speak in any interview he gives as well as in any quarterly meeting or end of year meeting for sure. And so you were able to speak at OXP along with a bunch of other team members from the Buffalo office. And you spoke on the subscriptions app. How was speaking at OXP? Any fun tidbits to share?.

Nick: 30:04

Yeah, well, whenever I go to OXP, I always try to engage a talk because preparing for the talks is, I wouldn't call it the most exciting thing, but, you know, it's a little nerve wracking, but it's a healthy exercise. And I always try to find the talks that I know the least about. So, for example, the subscription app was a black hole for me, primarily because we just totally revamped it. So I didn't necessarily know for certain the intricacies of how it was going to work because it was just released. I took that as an opportunity to learn and I dove into it and and figured it out. And next year we'll see what big change gets implemented or what new thing comes out that I know nothing about. And I'll be the first person to sign up for that one as well.

Emilia: 30:59

Do you have a favorite feature? It could be within the subscriptions app or any of the new apps.

Nick: 31:04

Ah, good question. Favorite feature, I think. The most exciting feature, there's many I mean, the new analytic accounts engine is brilliant. And I think it's very well designed and it has great user experience. And it's functionally super rich, right? The changes that we're making to point of sale, very compelling integration with Stripe that is a game changer. Very compelling and. You know, I think Odoo sheets might be my favorite feature out of the last three or four years now. Because once you understand the power of what can be done in Odoo sheets, I mean it essentially renders most modern AI tools that you would have to rely on as a third party application. Useless. And that's I mean, that's how you change things at a market level.

Emilia: 32:13

Yeah. Yeah exactly.It's really disrupt the system. We talked last week about a couple of features and I think the Odoo Knowledge app is something that also just really stuck out to me as, as something I might be implementing in my own workday. So a big thing to come out of OXP was the new pricing structure. So can you elaborate? How does this benefit the customer and what are customers to expect?

Nick: 32:40

Sure. I mean, Odoo's thinking in terms of how to approach the market is incredible. It's I mean, it's bold, but it's working nonetheless. So there's this idea of and I'm going to use the word, I guess, commoditization of like enterprise software. But, you know, in the words of Fabrice, he would say closing the door on the market. So if you think like you look at a product like Gmail, I mean no one's going to, you know, to create a business in that space anymore because Gmail has created a product that is free. How can a business right stand itself up and pay salaries and all the other expenses that they would have to incur in order to build a compelling product that is functionally as rich? If not, And it would need to be more than a product that's already on the market for free. And you can't they've they've closed the door on that. They've essentially made it impossible for another company to come in. The moat is just too extreme and I think long term that's ultimately what Odoo is trying to do. We're trying to create management software that is accessible to everyone across the planet. And in order to and to put position it at a price point, that makes it virtually impossible for another business to compete with. Of course, that's in the SMB space, right? One plus employees. But what I like about our pricing model is that it's a real. It signaled to the market that 'hey, we are pursuing that strategy'. But at the same time, it is also allowed us to position ourselves in the mid-market enterprise space as a compelling solution that's priced appropriately for that market, making things less expensive for small businesses but also ,I don't want to say making them more expensive, but appropriately expensive. We're pricing it in such a way as it's as it's aligned with the value that business is getting. That's ultimately what the pitch is. It's a small business that is one user is paying $24 a month. That's the value that that one person company is getting. But if you have a 500 person company, of course, they're getting much, much, much more value out of the solution. And therefore that should be reflected in the price. That's the idea behind it.

Emilia: 35:04

Wow. And I like that. Yeah. And we've started to see that rollout.

Nick: 35:08

It's fair, you know, It's like that's what it's actually it's fair, right? That's what I think is worth noting.

Emilia: 35:14

Yeah. I mean, we're definitely tapping into a lot more one user companies than we ever would, which allows those people to scale their businesses even more without having to worry about a certain price point or choose a single purpose software over ours. So it's very interesting to see and it is rolling out currently. So if anyone has questions about it, you can reach out to your account managers and they can definitely explain it to you. But this will be interesting to kind of see how this unfolds and how it changes the market. What advice would you give to someone who wants to become a managing director?

Nick: 35:56

Oh, man. I guess I'm going to remove the specific title and I think advice to someone who's ultimately responsible for managing people, It sounds far more glamorous than it actually is. First off, you have to, I would say, make sure that you are someone who enjoys working with people, Right? People by nature are humans. They're unpredictable. They're sometimes irrational. They're emotional. We all are like that. And. Right. Managing people means that you have to effectively manage under those conditions. And it can be tricky and it is not for everyone. And I think it's a a total misconception to think that if I don't go into management, I can't advance my career, whether from a financial perspective, from a knowledge perspective, a hierarchical perspective, et cetera. And that's just not true, right? As an individual contributor, you can definitely still advance your career. So, you know, don't feel like you have to just go into management because that's the only way up the ladder that is going to help you build your career. That's not true at all. It's right. It's what you know and the value that you can add to the business that ultimately defines, you know, your place in the business, right? It doesn't matter if you're managing people or not. That's the lens you want to think about it through : what can I contribute? And you're always going to optimize that which you can contribute by aligning it with that which you're interested in. Oftentimes people, they like what they're good at and they're good at what they like. Right. And that's a good model to follow. So I don't want to discourage people from pursuing it by any means, but I think you should take a hard look at what it means to manage people and work with people before making such a jump, because it is a commitment right? When you are in a position where you're responsible for people, you have to think about those people. And that's a full time job, I promise you that.

Emilia: 38:07

Yeah. Yep. And if someone wanted to join our team here in Buffalo, any advice?

Nick: 38:15

Bring your bring your jacket. It's cold. That would be my advice. Now, any advice? I mean, any Odoo office that you go to is going to be similar from a cultural perspective and from an employment experience perspective, simply because the culture comes from the top. And the top is what taught all of us. And we've just gone out and distributed the message. Yeah, right. It's FP and a few of the other people who have been a part of this organization from the beginning that have already created all of that culture. So I wouldn't say that culturally you're going to experience anything different, you know, but I would say that from a market perspective, like if you're looking to enhance your English, if you're looking to learn how to navigate the sales process or the implementation process in the US market, that could be something worth having a conversation about. If you possess a specific skill that you feel like would help us as a business optimize or differentiate that the service or that we offer compared to our competitors in this market, then I would definitely like to speak with you and hear you out. That's how I think about it.

Emilia: 39:25

Wow. Thank you.

Nick: 39:26

So much. Would be like building continuing to build out a channel team in Quebec, right? We know that people in Quebec love Odoo and in Canada in general. But I mean, we have so many customers and so much momentum there. You know, and speaking French is also essential. And I don't think there are any French speakers here in the Buffalo office. But saying "Hey, I think I can help you scale up your channel team. I speak French, I want to come from Belgium." And this is my angle on it all then. Yeah. I mean, those those are I think that's the way you want to think about.

Emilia: 40:05

That value add.

Nick: 40:06

Value add. Exactly. The game doesn't change no matter where you go. Yeah, it's all about adding value.

Emilia: 40:12

Wow. Thank you so much for all your advice and thank you so much for joining us today. It was wonderful for you to take a little bit of time out of your day to come and speak with us.

Nick: 40:22

Yeah, no worries. Any time. Thanks for listening. And if you have any questions, never hesitate to shoot me an email.

Emilia: 40:29

Yeah, for sure. And for anyone who's listening, if you have any questions or anything you'd like to ask an expert, you can always comment on the podcast and I will ask an expert. Well, that's my cue. Thank you for joining us today. And if you liked it, take a look at some of the other episodes above. We have tons of other stuff. Talk to any expert from the Belgian team or join me and talk to more people from North AM. Go check out all of our episodes on your favorite streaming platform and come back. Bye, guys.